MOG

Also, the sound isn't very good.  Occasionally there's a recording where the act gets so inspired by the moment that brilliance occurs, or the act has had time since the studio recording to develop a much more evolved version that is superior.

Mike, you make a good point there. In that particular case, still, I'd make sure to see the band live, and not buy a live record that will just get lost on me. I feel that I have to be there.

Charles, true about the sound!

I agree with the fact that you might get a different inspired version of the song. That would be nice to have, though I would objectify it as a song and not a live song.

I think a lot of live albums are crap, they are cheap cash in's or records that fill out a record contract... and in some case there are live albums that are remembered as the best records from an act... and I am thinking of Cheap Trick and The MC5... and I think that what a solid live record and do is what both of those do... convey the emotion and energy of the acts live show. In the case of the MC5 it's also a case were the studio albums they released were with producers that didn't really understand what the magic of these bands live. Also with folk, country and roots rock acts often time it's the live show that really set's them apart from the pack....

Not a huge fan of live discs as well, but like you said if the band can make me laugh through out the cd, well then I will give it a listen. I do not have a lot of live discs, but the ones i do listen to usually make me chuckle once or twice

Agreed - I can only think of two exceptions... Nirvana's Unplugged as you mentioned. And Radiohead's I might Be Wrong recordings. In fact, I'd only keep 3 tracks from that album - True Love Waits, Morning Bell, Everything in it's right place....

The rest? Yeah, I'd happily delete.

The same goes for bootlegged shows - I just.... don't wanna listen to them. I want to be in the crowd, in the moment. Somehow, listening to it on a wet Monday morning en route to the office... Meh....

Eric, I'll take your words for those two, since I haven't not heard them myself {"studio albums they released were with producers that didn't really understand what the magic of these bands live" that's bad...:( }. "convey the emotion and energy of the acts live show" this is were I actually stumble; I think the emotion and energy of the live shows can only be experienced when you attend that live show.

I agree that certain bands work better live, but for me, that's a reason to go to their live show and not buy their live record...

Kevin, I'd love a recorded crappy performance mwuahahhahah

Which are the ones that make you chuckle?

Glad you agree, Kez :)

What up with those 3 songs? Are they so brilliantly performed that you have no choice but to succumb?

I have boogtlegs of ALL of the Pearl Jam shows and a couple of the Hold Steady shows...i cherish those, I can't imagine a better souveneir than a good soundboard recording of a show you were at...but yeah, other than that...I don't own a single live album

Anna-

i get what you mean, but i still like my live albums.  some of them, The Roots Come Alive and Pantera 101 Proof are transcendent, for me.  there are more than a couple songs on each that give me some visceral reaction almost every time i hear them.  in part, i think it helps if i've actually seen the band perform, but i don't think it's absolutely necessary.  in some ways, too, i think it's like listening to covers - if the cover sounds exactly like the original, why bother, but when the cover builds on the original - then you've got something, and both of those albums do that for me. 

i definitely agree with you about recordings of one time only performances.  Johnny Cash At Folsom/San Quentin (or either performance individually) is one of my all time favorite albums, and i think so much of what was going on there - from the song selection, to the between song banter, to inmates responding to different lines esp. "just to watch him die", etc. has everything to do with it being live, and in a prison.

i guess the best way for me to sum up how i feel is that i don't think live albums can replace live shows (shows are still best) for me, but if a studio album and a live album had the same song selection, i'd take the live version in almost every case.

peace, brz

True Love Waits - it was the first time many had heard a recording of that song.

Morning Bell - Bizarrely, even though it's the third released version of the song, it's the best - something about the guitar work at the end, the backing vocals...

Everything in it's Right Place - the original released track is perfect in it's disconnection from life, from the world. Live, there's a passion in the vocal that gets me every time, especially the second verse.

I think where Radiohead live recordings work for me is that you can hear and appreciate all 5 band members working together; on some of the recordings, you get the feeling that it's just Thom - the others are at home watching the telly and swigging green tea. I always feel a bit.... ripped off :D I want them all there, working.

(And yes, I know that True Love Waits is just Thom on acoustic guitar.... the other 4 are backstage swigging green tea....)

i'm with Marigold, a the Phish live recordings are the only way to listen to a Phish recording, the albums don't really capture as much. of course, the envy of concert goers remains.

I saw the Hold Steady last night, and I have never been more bored by what could only be described as a good time.

Some bands DO deserve live albums, some do not.  Kiss's first album to get any attention was a live album.  MC5's debut was all live, sort of proving the power they held over the stage.  Their studio albums never stacked up.  Grand Funk's Live is another seminal album of that nature.

Lest we forget Johnny Cash's "Live at Fulsom Prison" which is as much a testament to Johnny Cash the entertainer, as it is to Johnny Cash the musician. 

Bands like Phish (love 'em or hate 'em), The Grateful Dead, and I guess the newer incarnations like moe. are live bands.  You can never capture in studio what is captured live (if it can be captured at all).

I have listened to My Morning Jacket, and I'm not won over yet (but I'm not dismissing them either, knowing the above), becuase people tell me they are really great live.  It just hasn't cliced with me yet.

I don't want to say this is an American phenomenoma - live vs. recorded, but I will say that in all the (more current) British bands I have seen live, vs the American ones, there is a lot less room for deviation from what is on an album.  American band seem to enjoy the live arena to play off of what was on tape, where the British bands always seemed to deliver the studio album live.  I know this is an oversimplification, but I have written about this extesively here, and probably will continue to.  See this post:

http://mog.com/contrabandwidth/blog_post/156606

I guess we have to deferentiate the two - An album is a product of recording in the studio, a bootleg is a recording of a live performance.  A "live" album is nothing more than a compilation of live performances, and should probably be sequestered to that certain place with greatest hits albums.

Personally, I would rather hear a bootleg of a whole concert than a compilation of live performances.  As an album should exist as a whole, so should a performance.

You're a hard woman. A good recording of a classic live set, like Daft Punk's Alive 2007, puts you right there in the middle of the action, gives you goosebumps and sends you scrambling to TicketBastard to see if they're playing near you soon. I'd also prefer to hear some bands live show rather than their records. Like U2. The effort they put into putting on a real show and the connection they seem to have with their audience makes those recordings special. But then again, many artists butcher their own songs live. Sometimes deliberately, sometimes not. I hated Bruce Springsteen's Live In Dublin CD and have burst out laughing at Bob Dylan's live interpretations. So, yeah, fuck 'em all out, Anna!

i think i agree with Iren on this one.  since i've gone back and forth between working live and in-studio for years, i've always looked at the studio end of things as making a choice......is it an album as a work of art or is it a representation of what we've done live that everyone loves, just tightened up abit?  i NEVER wanted to come out of an album with an artist saying "you should see us live".   

but in many situations, there are some REALLY good live albums.  Besides the ones mentioned,Lou Reed's "Rock 'n Roll Animal" was a MOFO that i can still listen to nonstop.  The Who "Live at Leeds", the Allman Bros. "Live at the Fillmore East", James Brown "Live at the Apollo", Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison, Jimi Hendrix "Band Of Gypsies", Talking Heads "Stop Making Sense" and Bob Marley "Live" are just a sampling of some pretty great stuff.  Granted, those aren't "new".  I LOVE the Roots and Erykah Badu live, but i'm curious for some recommendations of great live albums done by newer artists.  I always wanted to do a live album with My Morning Jacket, but they beat me to it.  There's also a bunch of combination albums (Pink Floyd's "Ummaguma") and live DVD's (Radiohead "the Astoria London Live") that i love.   i bought the "Live on Saturday Night Live" music DVD and the list goes on.

As far as memories, i'm THRILLED that i can remember a great show i was at, Led Zeppelin's "The Song Remains the Same", both on CD and on DVD.  I was THRILLED, when Bruce Springsteen finally included a live show from '75 in his boxed set that represented the guy i was seeing live regularly in the early 70's and a flashback to my nights at the Bottom Line in '75 when i was parking my cab every night, going to 2 shows, and trying to explain why my tripsheet was empty at the end of the night so i wouldn't lose my gig as a taxi driver.

As far as the sound, sometimes it's just worth it.  there are people that would KILL to have my collection of board tapes from when i worked at CBGB's in NY in the 70's and 80's with artists like Blondie, the Ramones, Patti Smith, Television, the B-52's, Sonic Youth and a ton of others.  Particularly now, as an artist who is PRAYING that some people actually buy records, i'm not a fan of bootlegs.  my tapes (remember them?) live in my house.  but i DO listen periodically and have great memories. 

Blair, agreed, it could work like that if you were actually at the show. You provided one more exception to my rule :)

brz, I'm glad that live albums make you feel that way. It's interesting how some thing can leave people indifferent and make others feel ecstatic, especially when we are talking about music. Our differences are one more thing that makes us click and keeps things interesting, just like it is now :)

That Cash album sounds like it is an EPIC one.

Kez, you are a gigantic Radiohead-head, aren't you! I'll have to get a taste of those 3, and see if they can have that effect on me :)

Green tea ahahaha each to their own substance abuse ;)

Here's a little bit of trivia though - Supposedly Lou Reed's live version of "Sweet Jane" from the live album he put out in the 70's was cobbled together from bits of studio performances, and the cheering at the begining is actually taken from a John Denver concert.

Totally agree with you dear... listening to live albums is like hearing someones else's private jokes - it means nothing. The only live album I actually listen too is a bootleg of a Rilo Kiley show I was at... its a great reminder of a really good show, but if I hadn;t been there it would mean very little to me...

madrid, noted, green monster of envy aside :)

ahahhahahahahaah pray that Blair (satisfiedmind) won't read your Hold Steady comment, that's all I have to say ;)

contra, I see your point. My problem is that not even a live recording can capture a 'live' band's essence; for me, again, you have to be there.

I don't have enough knowledge to say if the Americans-British thing you note here is true, but it doesn't really sound like something I would agree with; I can't imagine how nationality is a factor. Will read your post for more info :)

Are there no live albums that are a recording of a whole performance?! Maybe I'm thinking DVDs, which also have the same effect on me. Plus, I have bootlegs that consist of remixes and unreleased tracks, but not live ones.

Fluxy, I remember your review of Daft Punk's album. It's true that they improvised on the songs, but the fact that it's a band that I want to dance to (alone in my room doesn't count!), held me back, once again.

If a band puts effort into a live show I wasn't at and can only listen to from a CD, makes me feel like a sonical voyeur that is actually bored of looking through the peephole without being able to participate.

Fuck 'em all. ahahhaahhahahhahaha

Robin, thank you for your input. You're right about the "you should see us live" factor. I'm afraid I might be too inexperienced to recognize it when I'm listening to it. So those recommendations of yours will come in handy, I need to train my ears! :)

I could recommend Muse's live in Wembley arena DVD (unless you don't want to count that as a recording). They are glorious live (I can testify to that), and that Wembley show was marvelous, which, of course, is a fact wasted on me, because I wasn't there ;)

I don't think I've ever been to a show that was being recorded, unless I'm forgetting something. Well, you were busy making sonical trips, so they should have excused your tripsheet :)

I think that you will get lots of MOG-mails from people threatening you or bribing you for those tapes........oooops! Cheers :)

I'm okay with live albums. They have to be quality sound, and a good performance. 

I LOVE live DVD's though.  Granted it's still not like being there, but with Bob Marley & the Wailer's (who we can't see anymore) it really appeases the need.  Live at the Rainbow is always a crowd pleaser at my house on the weekends too.  No woman no cry, about those live sets.  ; )

I have a whole whack of NIN live tracks from either the live CD or ripped from his live DVDs that I use to listen to all the time.  It was refreshing to hear the live interpretations of the tracks I knew and loved.  However, now I skip over them every time they come on.  Somehow my opinion of live tracks has shifted from being like Flux's to yours.  I've even been toying with the idea of deleting most of my live NIN tracks.

I wish I had something new to add to the discussion, but I guess the best way I could describe my opinion on the matter would be the following...

Live tracks will never replace the live experience; being squeezed in with a mass of fans, grooving to the same tunes, connecting to your favorite artists in a much more personal way.  However, having tracks that remind you of the experience no matter where you are (home alone, on the bus, while ignoring coworkers) is the next best thing.

I couldn't agree more, with the exception of the live album from a concert or tour that I've seen, which is a treasured momento. Like Depeche Mode 101, for instance. :P

ssssSSSSH! don't blow up my spot! also, robin danar makes a fantastic point, Talking Heads' Stop Making Sense, that is a red banner for the pro-live album faction

contra, that's fascinating (I'm a geek for music trivia like that). Is it a rumour? If so, I'm definitely going to believe it. Rumours are way more fun than the truth ;)

Joxy, excellent, one more vote for the Kill Live Albums posse ;)

Any chance we can hear your screaming innuendos at Jenny at that one?

Helen, I totally agree with seeing DVDs of bands and artists that are not with us anymore. It has an added educative factor :)

Am I invited to one of those gatherings?

/loaded questions eyes ;)

Daniel, if it makes you feel any better, I deleted even my Placebo, Muse and Arctic Monkeys ones (sacrilege, I know!:P)

Right, it becomes impersonal...Reminding good, showing you what you miss badbadbad!

Dale, I'm not jel. No, I'm not. You can't prove it, sir ;)

"Am I invited to one of those gatherings?"

Are you kidding?!  We'll get loaded and ask all KINDS of questions!!! Can't wait! Maybe it'll rain for us too!!!

ahhaha sadly not Anna... although you do hear someone shout "She's gonna piss on ya!"

i have always wondered about the allure of live albums. nirvana's unplugged is also my exception to the rule. great to read the post and replies. gratzi.

Never, ever listen to a recording of a gig you where at; It's never, ever like you remember it and always leaves you disappointed....

Anna I tend to agree with you.  A lot of live albums aren't worth time or money at all, but there are a couple of reasons why SOME live albums are worth keeping around to me. 

I like live albums that have versions of songs that are different than on the record.  Bands like Rush, King Crimson, Magma, etc (and probably some more mainstream bands too, though I don't know) play songs differently live.  Sometimes it's because as the songs has aged they've changed it around to keep it fresh.  I like hearing these newer versions.  Sometimes, as in the case of King Crimson, it's because they can't stand to play the song the same way twice.  So you have an example like their song "Easy Money" which has been recorded live like thirty times if not a helluva lot more, and it sounds different almost every time.  Also, King Crimson did a lot of improv in their sets where they would just start to play, no music prepared, and see what happened.  A lot of times they came up with crap.  But sometimes they did something amazing.  So their live albums are worth it for me

Also, as has been mentioned above, some bands sound different live.  Most of Magma's studio stuff sounds like crap to me, really.  I wouldn't have known how great a band they were until I heard their live material, which blows the rest of their stuff away.

Also, you asked about any bands releasing whole shows?  King Crimson has done that several times.  Their "Great Deciever" boxed set is basically four discs of four live shows, fron to back.  Same with some other hings they put out.

Last: live recordings are a rather cheap way for a good live band to make their first recording and get it out to the masses.  I'm thinking of Primus here, who recorded "Suck on This" first and started to garner some attention from it, before they ever released something from the studio.

There is some truth there. Okz, some live albums really suck, no need to mention the Motorhead live album, right?

I'm not a live album fan either, but i did enjoy Blind Guardian's live album. In fact, I've listened to them (double cd) more times (like 500% more) than their studio work.

I can remember the feeling while listening to the Valhalla's song: the Blinds had finished the song but the crowd kept on doing the 'clap-beat' and singing '' Valhalla, Deliverance, Why have you ever forgotten me'' and the drummer started playing after a while with them. It was a vivid crowd-drummer moment.

..or the Bard's song, when the crowd was singing along; this song sounds always better in a live performance.

Generally speaking, an epic metal live show can turn into a nice album since epic is all about the 'atmosphere'.

Aahh.. metal days..

I was kinda stating that a whole concert should be considered a Bootleg, where as a live album is more of a compilation.  Sure, there are plenty of whole concerts released by bands, and I would prefer them like that, un-edited.  Bootlegs generally seem to get the rep that they are recorded by a fan, and have poor sound quality.  I don't care who releases my boots, I just want them to sound good.

Depends on the band for me... I think I warm to a live album if I've seen the artist/band live - it takes me back to that live show & that is a magical experience.  Also there are bands who really thrive in the live & their live albums tend to rock the face off the studio efforts (as our Marigold Mike said) !!!  Sometimes it's a total loss - the live album does nothing new & doesn't thrill me - but I usually go with my gut - if it's an artist I've seen live - then chances are I can use that live album as a teleportation disc & go back to the night I drank too much wine ;P  & had a blast.  That is worth the price of admission in a heartbeat my sweet sister :)

Wow, great post Anna and great thread.

I typically agree that live albums are overwrought, bands could have totally transcended some of their catalog but there is always filler of unnecessary songs. However I will forever be a fan of Allman Bros. at Fillmore East - there are so many spine tingling moments. Live shows are better, but it is nice to sit in the dark of your own home and get some of that atmosphere.

anna, no matter what you and your mog cronies say, i like a good live album.  emphasis on the word good.  an example for me would be the who, live at leeds.  you can't tell me that's a bad album.  it fucking rocks in a way that leaves me feeling quite decapitated.  the sound is the band as they are, laid bare.  no studio trickery, overdubs, or session musicians to make it sound better.  how many times have you loved a studio record, then saw the band live, and realised they are really terrible?  i have several times.  i will admit that there many live records that have questionable audio quality, and that definitely licks bunghole.

other live recordings i enjoy;

cheap trick, live at budakon

humble pie, rockin' the filmore

big brother and the holding company, cheap thrills

ufo, lights out

i'd say the Fillmore East live recordings of the Allman Brothers Band comes off better than any of their studio albums

some shows are just classic performances that deserve to be heard by many generations, The Who @ Leeds, Band of Gypsys @ fillmore, Buckley @ olympia, Cash @ folsom...i can go on to some extent

now i agree that there probably is a lot of crap live albums out there as a lot of bands will put one out just to get another record out there...and most bootleg recordings are a bore

but there's a place for a live album in my book

hmmm...my little @ signs didn't showed up and the text went screwy...but i think you can follow that...you're a bright one

oh yeah, how could i forget johnny at fulsom!  doh!

You will always find exceptions. Daft Punk sounds great for instance, because their songs become mixed together. Kraftwerk is great, because the technology they play the music with now is significantly better then what they recorded with (mostly) in the seventies.

Bands that differ wildly live, are worth having recordings for...but yes most live stuff is rubish.

I would agree w/what most people are saying here, that live albums are only good if you were there in the first place. I have Prince's live set at Coachella that I'm enjoying now since it brings back the memories of the festival & seeing him perform it in person. I tend to prefer live dvds over them live recordings. But of course they don't hold a candle to actually being there.

Helen, YES!!! Wooo hoo! It will be the best mud partay ever! :*

Joxy hahahaah I don't want to know, do I? ;)

Brittany, we are live album soul mates hehehe :D

I like you when you're strict, Neill :)

Sounds a bit like the sex with the ex situation. "If it's good, you can't get it anymore. If it's bad, you just had sex with an ex" ;)

Groony, I've never heard of King Crimson's music. What you share with us about this band is refreshingly impressive. I can't think of another artist I know of that does that.

You've shared some great information here, G! You sure know your stuff, eclipse boy ;)

Needless to say, your new bands argument is totally acceptable.

Pyro, no one has ever dropped the name Blind Guardian in my posts before....the nerve....

Wish I could enjoy moments like that...I guess I'm all dead inside!....

Never had any metal days myself, hope I'm not missing out on anything :)

Noted, Tyler. I think the only bootlegs (as you define them) that I wouldn't mind as much are Morhine's and Joy Division's, even with crappy quality....

Fair enough, Lizzieness. I have a soft spot for people that go by their gut :)

Teleportation disks, eh? When are you coming here? :)))

Merci, Oatmeal :)

I'm glad that vibes can sneak out of the speakers and tingle your spine, wish I could say the same for me. I'll take that as a live album recommendation :)

leftoverking, good for you! I feel like I shouldn't tell you that solos (drum, guitar etc) in live albums bore me a lot, eh? Don't yell at the tourist!

All your albums noted, merci :)

Will, one more for the Allman Brothers!

Dunno if I'm a bright one (giggling), but I do know that till this very day, not even good live albums had an effect one me (seriously, dead inside? Should I be worried? Naww....).

Mark, I could see the mixing brilliance in the DP songs, but it was such a turn off to realize that I should be there dancing to them....

Kraftwerk might work, hadn't really pondered that one! :)

Uncle A, you getting your purple vibes on, eh? :)

I even saw Muse's live DVD and didn't even blink. I couldn't see the point to go through the whole thing :O (it really hurts to admit this, you know!)

Anna-

look what you've gotten us into - nice work :)  it has been enlightening.  i'd say Folsom is epic, but it looks like you don't have to take my word for it (Contra, Robin, Leftover...).

at some point, while i was reading all the posts i started thinking about your question in reverse - bands who play an entire album(s), in order, at a show.  i've heard that Slayer did this with Reign in Blood (it helps that the whole thing is less than 30 min), and i think Primus might have done it with Sailing the Seas of Cheese... any moggers out there who were in attendance for these shows, or others?

Normally I don't care much about live albums as well. However, sometimes I listen to it, because sometimes a band expands on songs live. Especially genres like Jazz and Blues, the solos there, fantastic. I can recommend The Allman Brothers Band Live at the Fillmore East to anyone who loves slide guitar, because Duane Allman solo's the lights out. And sometimes bands before my time, who I won't have the chance to see live anymore, it's fun to hear how they were live.

Also, there are two brilliant dutch sites (www.3voor12.nl and www.fabchannel.com)  who record a shitload of live gigs, and it's fun to hear and see those because I might come across bands I haven't heard of yet. Also, like Joxley and Dale and a few others probably mentioned already, it's fucking great to have a live recording of a gig you've been too. Just as a little memorabilia. With those fucking e-tickets I don't have anything to put on me wall anymore anyway, so might as well have a live recording stashed somewhere on my computer.

But on the whole, yeah, I agree with you. Just a few minor exceptions in my book. ;)

brz, why thank you. If I'm going down, I'm taking everybody with me mwuahahha

That Johny Cash one falls into the one-time-thing category of mine, from what I could get from your description, so we're good :)

This post might be of interest to you: http://mog.com/Neill/blog_post/160969

Thank you, Stefan, I'd say The Allman Brothers one is getting many votes of confidence here :)

One other problem I have is that if I listen to a band for the first time via a live performance of a song, I simply refuse to form an opinion about till, till I hear the recording (yes, you can call me weird)

I'm glad tickets are still an option here; I'd hate to ruing my ticket collection!

Will do. Exceptions do not exist to prove a rule, but to make a rule more interesting ;)

Erm, sorry, dunno why "weird" is a link, I didn't intend it to be one. I must have screwed up the HTML code somehow!

SA, you got a point there. Many jazz n blues live recordings are music masterpieces. How could i forget the 'In session' album with Albert King and Stevie Ray Vaughn or John Mayal's live recordings both in Boston and NYC?..there are so many others.

And where did that Depp Purple - Made In Japan go?! ;)

Let me reconsider: live recordings with fine musicians jamming the place can be a fine choice for a live album. Otoh, a pop live recording when the band has copied n pasted the track and the only difference between this and the studio track is the 'whoo-hoo' crowd add, maybe not be worth it -for the average fan, not the album collectors-.

it's just like anything else lp wise

some shit is good

some shit is BAD

hit or miss yo

a live album peter frampton comes alive

is single handedly responsible for $$$ signs in the music industries eyes and changed EVERYTHING about sales of music albums

i have bootleg A.I.C. lp the fuggin RAWKS

and all other up there are mentioned again and again

sigh

YOU PEOPLE

GASSSPPPPPPP!!!!!! You passed over Muse? What is this world coming to? I've lost all faith in everything!!!! (And yes, I've been getting my Purple on!)